Liberal Hand-Wringing

BBC NEWS | Politics | Black community in crime ‘crisis’

Parts of the UK’s black community face a “serious crisis” with young people becoming involved in crime, MPs say.          

Another report on the problems within the black community and again a limp, painfully half hearted attempt. It comes to something when the recommendations of the Commission for Racial Equality go further than those of a Government so called ‘select’ committee into the problem.

The report was contradictory and tried desperately to gloss over the facts and be PC. Silly phrases like:

“there was no evidence young black people committed more crime than other groups.”           

Unless of course you count the overwhelming evidence within the prisons themselves, only around 2% of the UK population is classed as black, yet almost a quarter of those currently serving time are black. If black people aren’t committing more crimes than other ethnic groups then why are so many of them in prison?

This is then answered by the fact that apparently:

“[there was] evidence to support allegations of direct or indirect discrimination in policing and the youth justice system.”          

But to reach almost 25% of the prison population, there must be serious racism and discrimination within those systems, especially if that is the only reason that the committee can give, having already discounted the fact that black people commit more crimes than other groups. That seriously needs some investigation, if our police and courts are that biased then it needs to be addressed swiftly.It also poses the question, why is it only blacks that are discriminated against? What about Indians, Chinese and Pakistani’s? Why are they so far under their percentages?

As for the contradiction, despite saying that there is no evidence to suggest that black people commit more crimes than other ethnic groups the report also goes on to say:

“Black people make up 2.7% of the UK population aged 10 to 17, but represent 8.5% of those in that age group arrested in England and Wales,”         

Which would certainly lead any sensible person to conclude that they commit more crimes than other groups, but apparently not.

“But they [black people] were more involved in certain types of crime, including robbery, drug and gun offences.”          

So they do commit more of a certain type of crime, but as they aren’t prevalent in all areas of the criminal underworld it can’t be said that they actually commit more crime? Talk about fuzzing the statistics and creative accounting. You could also argue that according to the figures, white people are far more likely to commit a crime than black people, but as 90% of people in the UK are white it doesn’t really stand up. It is better to look at percentages.

Even though just 2% of people in the UK are black, 7% of people doing time for burglary are black, sexual offences (8% are black), violence (10%), fraud (13%), drugs (19%), robbery (23%), extremely high percentages. I think it is clear that on robbery alone black people account for ten times more convictions than they should for their percentage of the population. If all ethnic groups were that high, including whites, well it wouldn’t be safe to leave your house.

Another worrying statistic is that 10% of homicides each year, are of black people.

Despite all this evidence, it seems that the Government goes out of its way to not only not do anything about it but also not to mention it, or cause offence. The problems within the black community are spiralling out of control and burying their heads in the sand and pretending that it isn’t quite as bad as all that is not going to help anyone, least of all the black community.

The chairman of said committee, no doubt a man of great intelligence made this, completely pointless comment:

“[it is] an advantage to be a white criminal because you are less likely to be on the DNA database,”          

The recommendation was also made that broadcasters should work on putting black people in a more positive light. Personally I don’t think that is the issue, if you turn on a TV (especially children’s TV) you’d be amazed that only 2% of the people that live in the UK are black. From TV alone you’d guess it was more like 50%, so I think that that angle is pretty much covered.

The report also blames, Gangsta Rap, absent fathers, and the other usual suspects. To be fair, I think that there is some truth in that. Young black kids in the UK see the US black culture as their own, as if they have been through ‘the struggle’ also. Most black youngsters are unaware of their own heritage in this country as through music, TV and school they are only made aware of black US culture and history.

I recently saw a TV programme where a young black British couple took their young son to New York and were pointing out Martin Luther King saying “Look, there is our history, there is our heritage.” Yet, they were British, there was no civil rights movement in the UK, it wasn’t needed. Black people have been voting in the UK since 1789. Clearly they were confused as to just what their heritage was.

This is understandable considering that in the UK the US slave trade, abolition and civil rights movement is what is taught about black history. There’s no mention of Ignatius Sancho, the British Abolition of the slave trade and the West Indian workers arriving in the 1950s.For me though, these are all secondary causes, the most important issue to confront is just why so many black males are leaving school early, without any skills or qualifications. With so many leaving with no chance of getting a job, is it any wonder that they are turning to crime? It may seem a step backwards but I agree with what Trevor Phillips suggested, that black males should be taught separately, things really are that desperate within the black community. With three quarters of black males failing to get good exam results, these problems are going to continue and get steadily worse.

“The hand-wringing of liberals feels increasingly irrelevant in the face of the accumulating inequalities that are slowly detaching the African-Caribbean community from the rest of society. The critical mass of failure is threatening to turn this community into a permanent, irrevocable underclass.”         

Trevor Phillips – the head of the Commission for Racial Equality. 

Sadly that was two years ago, and the hand wringing continues.

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13 responses to “Liberal Hand-Wringing

  1. hello

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  2. have you finnished? you clearly just don,t like black people so much you’ve lost sight of the simple ‘FACT’ there is good and bad in all of us and the colouring of a mans skin can’t make him just go out and do evil.

  3. Thank you for your comment. I was not suggesting that black people are inherently bad or anything of the sort. But you are wrong, according to the crime stats the colour of your skin does have an affect on whether you are more or less likely to commit a crime. According to the statistics a black male is approximately sixteen times more likely to committ a sex offence than a man of Oriental origin. In the case of robbery the number jumps to almost 40 times more likely.

    My point, or at least one of them, is that clearly black people are committing more crimes than any other ethnic group and we need as a nation to find the root cause of this and resolve it. Otherwise racial negativity and stereotypes will continue to be reinforced. When a nation has a situation where 2% of the population is accounting for nearly 25% of the criminals, it has to be recognised as a serious problem by the Government. Otherwise the other 98% of the population will start to take matters into their own hands, either through racism or more nefarious means. The fact that the problem community is black makes no difference, it would be the same if the demographic were elderly male Rotarians, it needs to be addresses and swiftly.

    My other point was that I agreed with Trevor Phillips, the head of the Commission for Racial Equality, that the education system is failing young black males. Although I would never normally advocate changing the national curriculum to suit the needs of just 2% of the population, I think that in this instance it is sorely needed.

  4. you’ve took your eye off the ball
    you don’t like black people so much so ,you can only see black stats,not other facts 1 like how many poor and low income people are in prison and what percentage of the poor and low income in england and wales are black people. 2 When I tried looking up on the internet the percentage of black people in prison in england & wales the highest figure I got was 15%. 3 The national black population is 2% ,the black population for england and wales is far higher.
    4 this is a free country in which you are trying to force a person to go to a certain school because of the colour of their skin ,what next? different football teams.You are also calling for the right of white children who want to go to school with their black freinds to be taken away and what happens to the mixed race children who are the fastest grow minority?(I bet you love the thought that ,a black person and white person getting it on)
    5 sex crimes? how many black faces do they show when a kid goes missing? not many but I,m that stupid to think I could leave my kid with the first black person I see, so may be you should stop thinking all black people are going mug you.
    6 at the end of the day its an innercity problem ,like in Russia(no blacks but still plenty of crime),Hungary,China,etc….crime is caused by bad housing in some cases, bad up bring in some cases and many other factors,such as policing (there should be zero tolerance) and yes it is up to everyone in the commuity to do there bit .
    THINK PINK because thats the colour we all are inside.

  5. I am sorry if I have given you the impression that I am somehow racist, but this isn’t true. I am merely pointing out a problem and as I have said before it doesn’t matter who the problem section of society is, they are still having problems.

    I’d like to address your points one by one if I may:

    1. Poverty is always used an excuse for crime but we live in the world’s 5th richest country, no one here need go hungry, no one here need go without warmth. When you compare the ‘poor’ today with the average working class family in the 1920s (just ask your grand parents), the poor today are unbelievably better off, they don’t have to share rooms with several families, they can afford shoes and rarely have to beg for food, yet the crime stats were considerably lower back then.

    So being poor is no excuse for crime, being cold and hungry is. Today it is just a case of greed, there are sections of the community who want what they cannot afford and believe it unfair that they are not in a position to buy those things, so they turn to crime. This however, isn’t just a problem within the black community, this is becoming more and more prevalent across the whole of society. They aren’t turning to crime through necessity, but through greed.

    As for blacks being the poorest sections of society and therefore having no choice but to turn to crime, again this isn’t true. When the majority of black people came over in the 1950s they came for jobs and worked hard yet successive generations have become worse off, the only explanation for this is the school system or extreme racism.

    In fact the poorest section of society in the UK are the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities – according to the 2001 census, where 60% of them are classed as being on low incomes. Yet they account for a tiny proportion of the prison population, about 1.5% almost the same as the percentage of the UK population that they account for.

    2. I did say that it was almost 25%, the figure you found is for the black male prison population – at 16% in 2003, the percentage of the prison population made up by black females was then at 25.3%. As a whole (both men and women) blacks account for nearly 25% of the prison population. Of course these stats are more than 4 years old. Between 1993 and 2003 the black prison population increased by 138% (white by 48% and Asian by 73%) so it is reasonable to assume that these percentages would now be higher.

    3. Not true, the national statistic for the UK is indeed 2% but in England is is actually lower. About 1.5%, at least according to this site. Even so the percentage of black people in England and Wales would have to be something like 15% to make the statistics square up, and even then it wouldn’t make sense as Scotland only accounts for 8% of the entire UK population.

    4. I am not calling for segregation, in fact it wasn’t my idea at all but one proposed by the Head Of the Commission for Racial Equality, himself a black man. If the head of an organistion which was set up to promote diversity and protect against discrimination is calling for something like this, then the situation must be pretty bad. His comments can be found here. Again you make references to the fact that I am some kind of racist, as I said though it wasn’t my suggestion, is he too racist? Is he too against interracial relationships? Your narrow minded view of this issue (which to be fair is a common one), is why this problem is being ignored and why even people like Trevor Phillips are unable to get the public behind any initiatives to deal with it. Would you still say it is wrong and racist when in a generation the crime statistics are reversed and black males are more likely to get into university than other ethnic group? It may not be an ideal solution but it will at least have a chance of reversing this trend.

    5. Again it is misleading, of course most high profile child abductions and murders are committed by white people, they make up 92.1% of the population. But with regards to sex crimes (sex attacks on children are not covered separately), only 85.2% are committed by white people, less than their percentage of the population. Whereas about 9% are committed by black offenders (nearly 5 times their population percentage). So while more paedophiles may be white and whilst it may seem that white people are more likely to be sex offenders or child molesters, this simply isn’t true.

    I certainly don’t think that all black people are looking for a chance to mug me. But some people do, these statistics and these facts breed fear and reinforce stereotypes. Ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away just leads more people into believing groups like the far right BNP and others are the only solution. Covering these statistics up just leads to lies and exaggeration. If the Government doesn’t do something, more and more people will drift across to these fanatics and their way of thinking. And it isn’t just white people that are turning against the black community either other ethnic groups can be racist too.

    6. I agree that it is mainly an inner city problem and I also agree that policing should be tougher. But I also believe that the inner city culture is due to a lack of education, particularly amongst young blacks. They see US gang culture and lifestyles and racism there (Rodney King etc), and think that it is their own culture and how they need to behave and fight against it.

  6. your still looking at a half empty cup,that probably has a black handle on it, to make things even worse!!!!Turn your stats the other way and guess what ,you’ll realise most black people are good people,so you can walk the streets again without the fear of being mugged by the first black person you meet. so, put away your factor 50 (in case you get a tan which according to your theory ,the colour of your skin determines your actions eg. you’ll start mugging people) and go on that package holiday, get a tan, meet other people, then may be you will not want to drive out any different coloured people out of your village with a pitchfork ,in other words YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE!!!

  7. ref your relay (I hope you don’t mind me typing in black)

    1 the poor people in the 20s and 30s thought they were better off than the poor of their grand parents when a million poor people lived in workhouses (little more than slaves)and if you got caught nicking a loaf of bread it was jail or hard labour in oz,the east end was more dangerous then ,than now(no blacks to blame then) ah! the good old days! the krays,ronny biggs,and in the usa innercities you had gangsters,bonnie & clyde all heroes,put them in films.the good old days!
    why is there still crime in russia,japan and everywhere else in the world? ,its because its a social problem ,its not because of black pigmented skin ,I think you might have a phobia of black skin which makes you twist stats for your own means.

    2 & 3 it’s 15% of the prison population is black in english prisons,85% of people in prison in england are working class from the innercity and black people make up 11% of the working class in the innercity in england.

    4 trevor phillips asking for segregated school, thats his opinion which nobody has took up and now your saying because his black his right (talking about double standards)and what happens to the mixed race children? what school do will they go to ,after all ,in a few more years they will out number black children, then what about the 36% of black children who are achieving at school and the white children who want a choice of who they want to go to school with?
    all this just to please you!!

    5 how many black serial killers have you seen ,I’m sure there must be some ,oh! but not according to your stats ,serial killers are lumped together with black on black gun crime there for, there is a higher % of black people involved, (well done you got out of that once again ‘mr stat man’! your telling me bank fraud,drink driving,the high crime in northern ireland,glasgow,newcastle is all down to a high & of black crime ,pull the other one! it’s all down to social problems.
    I knew it wouldn’t be long before you put the BNP forward as the only solution for some people (not you , you really don’t believe in all that rubbish about black people being bad or do you?) oh! yes the party to put whites first!, only they have the say on who your children marry,who plays in your football team,what music you listen to,what food you eat (curries a no no,),no pension if you live abroad,sounds to me like they are trying to put us whites last!
    remember nobody chose what colour they were born but they can choose how they act.
    good night and god bless .

  8. I’m Pakistani and know only too well it’s no good trying to blame just one section of society for all the problems in the uk today.

  9. Thanks again for the comment, Anonymous. I don’t see what you mean by turning the stats around. If 25% of the population where responsible for just 2% of the crime rate that would be great, the only statistic for that is in England whereby 25% of the population is over 60 and they account for around 2% of the crime rate. In the UK we have a complete reversal of that, whereby just 2% of the population accounts for almost 25% of people serving time in the UK. The only other comparison that I can give is that were the Welsh to have the same crime rate (in fact most of the poorest areas of the UK are in Wales), then even though the Welsh only account for 5% of the population, they would be responsible for almost half of all crime committed in the UK. Yet you fail to see the problem?

    1. Poverty again is no excuse, even though the Pakistani/Bangladeshi demographic is poorer than all other ethnic groups they account for far, far less crime than they should. As for the black mugger, statistically speaking I have a one in four chance of being mugged by a black man, even though only 1 in 50 people in the UK are black. So the stereotype that you keep trying to beat me with, isn’t that far from the truth is it? Another comparison would be that the chances of being mugged by a man of Oriental origin stretch into the 1 in 100s if not 1000s. Again you can claim that the stats don’t mean anything, but I am sure even you can see that there is something wrong there.

    None of this is my ‘theory’, as you put it, but facts and statistics and I found it quite offensive that you think that Indians, Pakistani’s, Chinese, Blacks, Arabs and all other non-whites, are just white people with a tan. I suppose it isn’t your fault that you are the product of a liberal guilt ridden brain washing, but if you truly were a Pakistani, as you claim, then surely you know that Pakistani’s are not just white people with a bit of a tan. Apart from the obvious cultural differences, there are of course genetic differences. The fact that black people are far more likely to have sickle cell has nothing to do with the fact that they have darker skin.

    Another side to your assertion that all peoples are the same is that if that were the case then there are also be no positive differences. I suppose that if I pointed out to you that the British sprint team is predominately black, you’d tell me that this is the product of better schooling or a privileged background? Or perhaps that is due to poverty as well? And that skin colour is irrelevant? There are differences, and I find your generalisation deeply offensive.

    You mention Bonnie and Clyde, The Krays, and Ronnie Biggs (who actually only robbed a train and was only a minor figure in even that), they are famous because they are a rarity. They are the exception rather than the rule. The black community must be awash with the likes of Bonnie and Clyde and the Kray twins if so few of them can account for almost 25% of crime in the UK. I am also not claiming that black people are responsible for all crime (just more than 8 times their fair share of it), there always has been and always will be crime. So your comparisons with Japan and Russia don’t really hold water, they don’t have a small proportion of their population accounting for a quarter of all the crimes. There have been three shootings of teenage blacks in just the past week or so. Did you see a similar number of shootings of whites? Yet you claim there is nothing wrong. Operation Trident was set up almost ten years ago to deal with rising gun crime in London, yet despite getting more officers and a bigger budget each year, gun crime increases every year. I am sure that this is nothing to worry about right?

    2-3. Your statistics don’t really stand up. It isn’t 15% of the prison population of England, but 16% of the prison population of the UK. My information came from a Government report, that can be found here. On page 87 you will see the data that I referenced. You will also see that although the data is several years out of date, ‘The Black prison population increased by 138% between 1993 and 2003’ and so is likely to have gone up, not down. As for the 85% of people in prison being working class, I cannot find any statistics on that, but that may not be as clear cut as it seems. Two thirds of people in the UK consider themselves working class, including myself, even though the number of ‘working class’ jobs has significantly decreased and the number of white collar jobs increased dramatically. But again this is the poverty argument and as I said this doesn’t make sense. There are far more poor white people, than poor black people, yet white people account for less than their 90% of crime. So poverty is not an excuse. The other side to that is of course, why are black people so poor? With the Pakistani’s/Bangladeshi’s it is because they mostly immigrants, yet most blacks in the UK have been here for two or three successive generations, getting poorer each time. Why is that?

    4. None of this is to please me, it is to stop a downward trend and to help save lives. When will you, and people like you, acknowledge that there is a problem? When this 2% of the population accounts for 40% of the crime? 50%? 100%? Again it wasn’t my idea that the black males should be segregated, I just agreed with it. Based in my own school experience and the declining pass rates for black males, it can only help. It is either that or teachers will have to devote more and more time to black pupils at the expense of others, just to ensure that they are on course for good grades. Is that what you’d prefer? Or would you rather see the Education system just abandon them? It would help your argument as that way the black kids with no qualifications and skills will always be poor as the best jobs will go to their non black class mates.

  10. 5. You have a point. Serial killers are predominately white, they are usually mentally disturbed people who get a perverted pleasure from their killings. But they only account for a tiny, tiny minority of white people in the UK and serial killers are, thankfully, a very rare occurrence in the UK. Having said that there are black serial killers. In the USA where there are far more serial killers than in the UK, they have black serial killers. Here are just a couple, this man killed 12 women and this man killed five women, two of whom were pregnant and of course the sniper a few years back was black.

    Of course serial killer just means someone who has killed more than three people so as the black on black shootings continue I am sure that there will be more blacks that hit the serial killer mark.

    Again I don’t understand your point about Newcastle and Scotland. As I said before my point is not that all crime is committed by black people but that a disproportionate amount is. When you say social problems what do you mean? Poverty again? Education?

    I never said that the BNP were a solution, in fact I said the opposite. When you have a country in which 90% of people are white and almost a quarter of the crimes are committed by black people, groups like the BNP are going to gain more and more ground. Surely it is better to solve the problems now, than wait for a BNP Final Solution?

  11. 1 wheres the proof (link) to say 2% of the population are responsible for 25% of reported crime in the UK.
    2 -4it’s not poverty to blame, anymore than it is the colouring of a mans skin, it’s a social problem(eg drugs,housing,lack of opportunities and yes bad upbringing), like in the shootings in northern ireland it was nothing to do with them being white ,it was social reasons.
    I mean by socail problems housing, drugs,bad upbringing,drink (booze britain),gangs (police need more powers with more training to deal with this problem)
    still not answered what happens to mixed race children regarding schooling?there will be more of them than black children in a few years.
    5 your vision of a BNP ‘final solution’ doesn’t scare me,black people have intergrated into society more than other race in britain and soon there will be more mixed race children than black in the country,so if your right ,crime will go down anyway.

    weather you morris dance or disco dance I love you

  12. 1. Sorry I thought that I already provided that link. The link to the statistics that say that 2% of the UK population is black can be found here.

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=455

    The crime stats can be found here:

    http://www.blink.org.uk/docs/s95race04.pdf

    On page 87 you can see that apparently 16% of the male prison population is black, 25.3% of the female prison are black population and about 15% of those in young offenders institutes are black. Altogether that means that almost 25% of those incarcerated are black.

    2 -4 If you are right, then I don’t understand, why are these social problems only afflicting black people? Why are Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs and white people under represented in the crime figures then? Surely they’d also suffer from these same social problems, particularly if the black population is so well integrated then it must be a society problem and not a black problem. Yet it only seems, or mostly seems, to be affecting black people (more than a quarter of women serving time are black, that is a shocking statistic).

    As for mixed race children, I don’t know, as I said it wasn’t my idea. I presume that if they are classed as ‘mixed race’ then they aren’t classed as black and therefore would not be covered.

    5. I am sure that Germans in the late 1920s early 1930s thought the same as well. The problem though, as I originally stated is the current black culture, heavily based on US gang culture that seems to promote guns, violence and getting whatever you want, by whatever means you can. This is likely to spread not dissipate among mixed race children, particularly as many of them consider themselves to be black, rather than white (Halle Berry would be classed as mixed race wouldn’t she? Yet she considers herself black, not white). It is seen, especially in youth culture, cooler to be black than white.

    Problems very rarely disappear of their own accord.

  13. Pingback: British Black History « Charlie’s Space

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